Splash, mottle and mille fleur genes

[ChicksnMore]

Is their a difference between mottling and mille fleur? I don't see a gene specific for mille fleur. Is mille fleur created by the mottling gene with other genes effecting it or is just a name for mottled birds first bred in a specific area?

Then...if you have birds that have mottling and you believe some carry splash and some do not...how do you tell which are splash? When I read about splash it's always black on solid white or solid blue...that's none of these birds, yet they produce blue. So I'm wondering if splash can only exist on a solid bird or if splash and mottling can exist in the same bird?

I'm breeding the blue to blue right now to get bbs chicks in the hope that those chicks will help me learn to identify the splash birds but I'm not sure it'll help by itself other than to give me birds I know for sure are splash. If I'm right that the birds carry mottled and splash together, I'd like to know how to tell the difference between a mottled feather and a splash feather. So I'm wondering if theres a specific look to a splash feather that I should learn and if mottled feathers and splash feathers can be told apart when looked at individually.

 

[Amer]

Is their a difference between mottling and mille fleur? I don't see a gene specific for mille fleur. Is mille fleur created by the mottling gene with other genes effecting it or is just a name for mottled birds first bred in a specific area?

Then...if you have birds that have mottling and you believe some carry splash and some do not...how do you tell which are splash? When I read about splash it's always black on solid white or solid blue...that's none of these birds, yet they produce blue. So I'm wondering if splash can only exist on a solid bird or if splash and mottling can exist in the same bird?

I'm breeding the blue to blue right now to get bbs chicks in the hope that those chicks will help me learn to identify the splash birds but I'm not sure it'll help by itself other than to give me birds I know for sure are splash. If I'm right that the birds carry mottled and splash together, I'd like to know how to tell the difference between a mottled feather and a splash feather. So I'm wondering if theres a specific look to a splash feather that I should learn and if mottled feathers and splash feathers can be told apart when looked at individually.

Mille fluer is mottling on a gold Columbian or gold spangled bird.
Splash and mottling can exist on the same bird.
A mottled feather usually has the mottle only at the tip of the feather and the mottle is a white patch not a greyish splotch.

 

[Amer]

That said, I often find it difficult to distinguish certain splash birds from paint birds.

 

[ChicksnMore]

What's the difference between splash and paint? I've seen both terms but only recently and thought it was different terms for the same look.

I'll have to read about Columbian effects. I wonder if the Columbian effects the breast spots somehow then. Most of my hens have bicolored breast feathers with various gold, red or brown, the rest of their bodies are tri-colored feathers...and the orange ones have tri-colored mille fleur on the breast as well as the rest of their bodies.

 

[Amer]

What's the difference between splash and paint? I've seen both terms but only recently and thought it was different terms for the same look.

I'll have to read about Columbian effects. I wonder if the Columbian effects the breast spots somehow then. Most of my hens have bicolored breast feathers with various gold, red or brown, the rest of their bodies are tri-colored feathers...and the orange ones have tri-colored mille fleur on the breast as well as the rest of their bodies.

Splash is two blue genes, paint is one copy of the dominant white gene on a black base.

 

[EnnieM0097]

Mille fluer is mottling on a gold Columbian or gold spangled bird.
Splash and mottling can exist on the same bird.
A mottled feather usually has the mottle only at the tip of the feather and the mottle is a white patch not a greyish splotch.

so... if I bred a Mille Fleur to some black and blue hens, and then bred the F1's back to the Mille Fleur, only the mottling would come through, correct? (even in the next few generations) it wouldn't be any of the Columbian?

 

[NatJ]

so... if I bred a Mille Fleur to some black and blue hens, and then bred the F1's back to the Mille Fleur, only the mottling would come through, correct? (even in the next few generations) it wouldn't be any of the Columbian?

If Mille Fleur has the Columbian gene, that will be passed on to the chicks, and sometimes the effects will be noticeable.

In that specific example, I would expect this:
F1 Mille Fleur rooster x black hens should give black chicks

F2, Mille Fleur rooster x black hybrid hens should give 4 main colors/patterns:
black
black mottled
Mille Fleur
Buff Columbian

F3 will depend on which birds you choose for the next generation.
If you choose Mille Fleur colored birds, and breed them back to Mille Fleur, they should breed true for the Mille Fleur color pattern.

If you choose Buff Columbian and breed them back to Mille Fleur, you should get about equal numbers of Mille Fleur and Buff Columbian.

If you choose black mottled and breed them back to Mille Fleur, you should get about equal numbers of black mottled and Mille Fleur (all are pure for mottling, but other genes are different.)

If you choose black with no mottling and breed them back to Mille Fleur, you should get the same mix of colors as the F2 generation.

If you keep breeding back to Mille Fleur, later generations should follow the same pattern. If you start breeding them to each other, you will see a few differences in chick colors & ratios.

For any pairing that has one blue parent and one parent with no blue, you should see blue in half the chicks and not the other half. The blue changes all black on the bird to blue, but does not change the other aspects of color & pattern. So that will give:

F1 with blue hens, half of chicks will be blue and the other half will be black.
F2 with blue hybrid hens, all the same options as with black hybrid hens, plus each of those with blue (plain blue, blue mottled, blue mille fleur, blue buff columbian.)

For all of these colors, they may not look quite right: the blacks may have gold leakage, the buff columbians might have some misplaced black to make the pattern messy, the Mille Fleur and mottled birds may have the white dots heavier or lighter or unevenly distributed.

If you keep a son from the F1 generation and breed from him, you might get some silver-based chickens (because many blacks & blues have silver). That would show as Columbian birds (vs. buff columbian) and Silver Mille Fleur, and silver leakage in blacks. But if you just keep hens in the F1, and cross back only to Mille Fleur and not the original black & blue hens, you will not get any silvers at all.

 

[Chickenharris241]

If Mille Fleur has the Columbian gene, that will be passed on to the chicks, and sometimes the effects will be noticeable.

In that specific example, I would expect this:
F1 Mille Fleur rooster x black hens should give black chicks

F2, Mille Fleur rooster x black hybrid hens should give 4 main colors/patterns:
black
black mottled
Mille Fleur
Buff Columbian

F3 will depend on which birds you choose for the next generation.
If you choose Mille Fleur colored birds, and breed them back to Mille Fleur, they should breed true for the Mille Fleur color pattern.

If you choose Buff Columbian and breed them back to Mille Fleur, you should get about equal numbers of Mille Fleur and Buff Columbian.

If you choose black mottled and breed them back to Mille Fleur, you should get about equal numbers of black mottled and Mille Fleur (all are pure for mottling, but other genes are different.)

If you choose black with no mottling and breed them back to Mille Fleur, you should get the same mix of colors as the F2 generation.

If you keep breeding back to Mille Fleur, later generations should follow the same pattern. If you start breeding them to each other, you will see a few differences in chick colors & ratios.

For any pairing that has one blue parent and one parent with no blue, you should see blue in half the chicks and not the other half. The blue changes all black on the bird to blue, but does not change the other aspects of color & pattern. So that will give:

F1 with blue hens, half of chicks will be blue and the other half will be black.
F2 with blue hybrid hens, all the same options as with black hybrid hens, plus each of those with blue (plain blue, blue mottled, blue mille fleur, blue buff columbian.)

For all of these colors, they may not look quite right: the blacks may have gold leakage, the buff columbians might have some misplaced black to make the pattern messy, the Mille Fleur and mottled birds may have the white dots heavier or lighter or unevenly distributed.

If you keep a son from the F1 generation and breed from him, you might get some silver-based chickens (because many blacks & blues have silver). That would show as Columbian birds (vs. buff columbian) and Silver Mille Fleur, and silver leakage in blacks. But if you just keep hens in the F1, and cross back only to Mille Fleur and not the original black & blue hens, you will not get any silvers at all.

What colour chick's would i get if my hens are millie fleur and cockerel is gold silkie please as the chicks are reddish ginger with black stripes at the moment but only 3 weeks old

 

[Amer]

What colour chick's would i get if my hens are millie fleur and cockerel is gold silkie please as the chicks are reddish ginger with black stripes at the moment but only 3 weeks old

Black tailed buff, but it sounds like yours might turn out to be buff columbian.